Why the Greatest Threat to Your Life Isn't Failure

you're now a, a author of not just children's books, but actually grownup books, uh, releasing atomic awareness, uh, here recently. What is the idea of atomic awareness?

We all have, um, and believe in the idea of habits. Habits are super important, whether they're big habits, like, you know, being a healthy person or being proactive in terms of like, let's say the seven habits, or whether they're micro habits, like in atomic habits where we're dealing with like small steps.

Yeah, a hundred percent. I align so much with what you're saying right now, and it's so difficult, especially from a place of, of un alignment to have clarity on, on the important decisions in life.

Yeah, yeah. And we're all reflecting on that, especially like, you know, with the changes in the world, the political situation, all the craziness. So it's really important that we like. Think about who we are and who we wanna be, and then yeah. You know, work at that point.

A question I aim to ask all authors books seems to me to be a very, like, personal pursuit.

you know, for a long time I've been teaching in different levels, if you wanna call it that, whether it's, um, teaching yoga teachers or teaching, uh, in, um, uh, in businesses about innovation and creativity and, and breath, breath work and mindfulness and all these kind of areas.

Hmm. And that's super, I think, at least for me, it was super difficult because it's, it's kind of trapped under layers of what other people want. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah.

And you have this beautiful story of Rumi and shas.

Yeah. So, um, Rumi, for those people who don't know, is a, a Persian poet. Um, and he was written around 750 years ago, and he was the kind of person who was like a leader in his community. So he was already a, if you want to call it, like, a, more than a religious leader, because at that time it wasn't like pure, like religion and state.

Is it fair to say that the character of, of Rumi represents order, uh, represents in a lot of ways what society kind of dictates us. This is what success looks like, like formal power following things like that, and incomes chaos in one way, but also aliveness. Is that a interpretation that you would say is, is the, the essence of the story?

A hundred percent. It was like he had everything in order. His life, for the lack of a better word, was like perfect. You know, if you looked at him from the outside, you'd be like, he's the most, one of the most respected person in his community. He was rich, he had a nice family, he had people that relied on him.

Hmm.

And, uh, I think that,

that's so interesting because in, in the modern equivalent, I, I do feel that the, that's part of, of so many people struggle, right?

Yeah. You know, a lot of people they make like, um. They, they visit these areas. So like when you go to a retreat or you go to burning Mat, something like that, you're entering into this, uh, tumultuous, uh, uh, let's say spiritual psychospiritual dimension.

Yeah. It's super interesting. The things that pop up in my head now is that, so me and my wife, we've just made a huge life move.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and I think this. Uh, obviously this concept comes from, we've both been to a lot of retreats. Me and Hannah, we've done a lot of self-development work, so, so like the, probably the essence of the idea of why we want this comes from somewhere, right?

Mm. When I heard, um, from you, because we've known each other a a bit through the years and, um.

yeah. I don't know if my experience of it, because it's been an exhausting year of, of change, to be fair, uh, I don't know if my experience is that. Either you could say that it's accessible to really anyone. It's more about you have to think about the ecosystem that supports that vision. And it, and it, it is at times, it can feel like a complex puzzle with, especially for us, it's like I have, uh, a new company, a new location, doing all the business, uh, more or less remotely, and we need to finance that.

Mm-hmm. Once you make a decision, sometimes like the things fall into place and it's when we don't really make a full on decision when we hedge our bets or when we have the plan

percent.

Yeah. It's so strange. Um, someone asked me. The other, the other day only, um, uh, a friend of mine, she's like, oh, you know, um, do you still wanna do, like, things that I used to do?

Mm.

Um, and in that is a real strength, you know?

there's wisdom in, in understanding that sometimes things need to die.

Yeah.

Because like it's been some of the things, like they've served you really well for like 20 years, right? You're emotionally attached to them as something that was your career or was your source of whatever, power, fame, influence.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like we, um, I have teenage boys and, you know, um, I, I, I, you know, remember there are certain, and I talk to them about certain, certain moments, even now that they go because they're trying to figure out what they're gonna do for, while I'm like, you, you got lots of options, but some options are closed, you know, like they loved football, right.

longer.

Yeah. And so it's finding what, like, also like identifying how we feel. I think often we skip over how we really feel.

Yeah. How much of this is a, is a question of, of like, you really feel in, in your bones that this mission is my purpose. How much of it is that versus other things, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that's where the fear things come in. Like, so for instance, I'm making a certain amount of money or having a certain title, you know, and you think, oh, I wanna, I've met a lot of people who wa like, wanted to be the CEO, you know?

One of the things that you feel. Through all the years of you working in kind of the yogic traditions and so forth, what are the things, specifically successful people, like, the lies that they tell themselves, and what are the, the things that they've taught themselves to ignore in terms of signs of, of this might not be actually that aligned towards what's truly me?

Hmm. That's a good question. I feel like, um, I feel like there's a longing. Um, and, and, and there's also a space there, especially, you know, uh, with, with men, um, that have worked themselves into kind of corporate world. There's, there can be a longing for, uh, a deeper connection to themselves and to other people.

Yeah.

Uh, so I think that that's one of those things is a kind of a, like, it's cut off in a way. Um, I think women in general maybe have been more open to these kinds of activities. Um, but that doesn't mean that's, yeah. Yeah. But also keeping them separate. They, they don't wanna like, you know, integrate the two sides or multiple sides into their everyday life in a way, or feel like it wouldn't be accepted.

It's a super interesting concept in general, how we like to keep domains separate. Mm. And I, I personally think that's, I don't know, like. You're not ski schizophrenic in a sense, like why would you treat your, your retreat self separate from your leadership self in a sense?

Yeah.

And the depth that you can find in a truth of, of like how your fears manifest, for example, in your life.

you know, we could go into the, uh, the yoga thing a little bit here because this is the kind of thing, because when I'm teaching yoga philosophy to people who wanna become yoga teachers, um, we have to go through things like the chakras.

Yeah.

That they're missing the point. There, there are no colors, you know, there is no animal, there's no like symbol. All those things are, uh, ways to help us understand our own psychology and our own physiology and our own, uh, let's say spiritual state better.

Yeah.

You know, it's a story. Uh, it's a, it's a, it's a story that maybe helps us to understand ourselves and maybe that story doesn't appeal to us. Maybe, you know, the hero's journey appeals to us more. Yeah. It doesn't matter what the story is that we use as long as we get to these areas.

Yeah, I agree. And the, the, there's something, I dunno, my, my journey is really from one who's been a hundred percent. Logical and quite prideful in that, you know, horoscopes are, are mumbo jumbo or, or whatever. Honestly, horoscopes is one of the few things that I still struggle with.

yeah, I think most people have, uh, let's say experiences. Uh mm. Um, of this type. Um, they're transformative because there's a reality to them that is beyond what we would normally accept, and yet yeah.

Hmm.

Uh, I also, this is a good point I think to point out, you know, we experience the world through and interact to the world through our senses.

Hmm.

Now, purely biologically, we know that there's a limitation on our senses, right? We only see a certain wavelengths.

Yes.

Knowing that means that we're missing one whole hell of a lot.

Yeah, that's a good point. I've actually never heard that before. Yeah, continue. Interesting.

Yeah. So, so because, uh, we know our perception is limited to this, then when we have extra perceptions because of, let's say, an intense practice like, uh, breath work or we, we remember our dream or, uh, we do some psychedelics or we, um, have a traumatic experience and things hit us.

yeah.

And everything that we have is, is separate. You know, everything that we have is based on those, on those, those perceptions and everything we believe about the world or experience the world.

Is this something that you would kind of s say that you haven't had this experience at all?

Hmm.

You could argue. Well, why? Should I aim for it? Uh, if that makes sense. Like what, what's the value of it?

This is a good question. Um, I think that there's only value if we feel that the life that we're living isn't the one that we wanna live.

Hmm.

So, um, I I, I like to, you know, obviously we all have our, you know, people that we rely on, right? And I, I, or we go back to and, and have relationships with, and I think of my brother, um, he's not interested in this kind of stuff at all. And yet, um, if I talked to him about it, he wouldn't be negative. He'd be like, oh yeah, whatever.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And, and life has seasons and chapters as well, right?

I think that the, like with, with those, I, I, I, I've read his book, so I know, I know that, and I, I think that there's, um, how we navigate life is one thing, and how we navigate ourselves is another thing.

interesting.

And yeah, I think that,

Hmm.

And yet that essence and connection to that essence is like a much simpler thing. And I think that, um, it's really, if we really start to listen into that as much as possible and like, take away all of the ideas of success and measurements of how our life might be and all that, and get down to that essence, the questions become a lot simpler at every stage.

Hmm. I

think, um, it's easy to think our way forward, but really it's a matter of feeling our way forward, I think.

And it's super difficult for somebody who lives up in their brain. I can attest.

Mm-hmm.

Sometimes I wonder that, that's one of the things that I, I wrote about, I remember my journals. 'cause I, I've, whenever I stressed, I tend to only live above my shoulders.

The, the number one and simplest practice is, uh, very simple short meditations. Um, and, you know, there are plenty online. You know, I have some on my website there. You know, they're, they're, they're, they're everywhere, you know?

Mm.

Um, two times a day, 20 minutes a day. Uh, and then you're given like a secret code where a mantra, right, which is just somewhere that you repeat, and then you just let that come in and that can take over your mind.

Mm.

Um, and you're just maybe breathing and concentrating on the in and out breath. Right. So those things eventually, if you meditate often, then those things disappear as well, and you just enter into the state where you're breathing,

drifting thoughts. Is that what it disappears, you mean? Or.

Yeah, the, it'll help disperse the drifting thoughts if you have something to concentrate on.

Mm.

So that type of practice is, is excellent. Um, I think that's the, the number one thing. It's also can help us when we're in a reactive state. Um, and this is, uh, because if we have some practice in place and we know that, oh, I feel more calm now, there, there, uh, then we can shift into that. So for instance, you're pissed off, you just had a shitty phone call or whatever, um, and then you know, your partner comes in and you or your kids come in and you're like, you're already like angry or frustrated or whatever from some external, uh, influence.

Yeah, me too.

Right?

Yeah.

That's changing our biochemistry.

I had a such a funny conversation on, I was on a retreat, uh, here a couple of months ago, and, and I had a, a, uh, a friend on the retreat and he, he was talking about that sometimes it's a little bit like potty training.

Yeah. Well, we're always training. This is, and this is one of the things about, uh. This work? Is that it? It's never done. I mean, maybe, you know, there are some, you know, beings who are completely, uh, I don't know.

doesn't know the struggle of waking up every night for six years straight.

Yeah. Right. He, he has, he doesn't have that feeling like, I have responsibility for this person. He might say, oh yes, I have responsibility for the old Tibetan people, but it's not the same thing. So if you haven't been, been through some real, like, stuff like that, that you have a personal connection with, it's very hard, um, to feel like you're always alive.

um,

then it's almost as if we forgot the conditions that it took for us to get there. And those conditions most had to do with aligning, deciding. Uh, making a mood board or DA vision or a list wherever you work or whatever.

Mm.

Uh, it's fun, right? I mean, you know, you wanna try the next, uh, retreat or the next group or whatever.

And how do you go from, so I, I think the ability to observe thought is mega, right? It's the foundation of. A lot of things, but how do you move from, because that's also a little bit of a, a passive behavior is shutting out the noise in order for like that, that little violin in the rock concert.

Alright, so I, um, so if, for instance, when you go into this meditation, it's not totally about like quieting that noise, it's about listening more carefully. So if that's one part, and then we'll get back to that in a second. And the, and the other part I just forgot I was gonna say, so let's, let's dive into this a little more.

Hmm.

There is this chatter. Most of the time the chatter isn't our actual thoughts. It's weird. In fact, there's very little thinking in this voice. You know, it's mostly like the complaining voice that is the loudest.

Yeah. You.

Hmm.

And don't record stuff that you're gonna do on your to-do list when you come home. Don't even bring the earphones or whatever it might be. You need space in order to get clarity. That's been absolutely huge. I don't know how, how well it kind of connects to, to the, the layers of, of voice that you just spoke about, but there's something in for sure that higher up in, in, in the, in the chain of voices or in the tree of voices, like the unimportant stuff has a frustrating tendency to kind of elbow their way to the, to the front of the queue.

Yeah. It, you made me think of the second thing that I was gonna say just a second ago, and that, and that is the flow state. And, uh, it can come from an activity like running, but it could also come from something else that takes our concentration in a positive way. So, for instance, I like to play the piano.

but

that you spend a lot of time on the busy work, the admin, and less time actual thing, which might be whatever, creating something you need to do whatever. I think that, um, allowing ourselves and giving ourselves, especially with all the distractions, the frigging, you know, uh, dopamine kicks that we get from constant scrolling to, to step away, to step into something that we can enter into a flow state is another amazing way to, uh.

some, can, can you help me? Uh, then I had a conversation, actually open a mountain on top, uh, here over the weekend with a friend, Philip. Um, and we were talking about that sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between what are actually distractions. That feels a little bit calming because you're so, uh, and we were talking about video games as an example.

Alright, so, um, I think the video game thing is a good question. The reason is, is that when you're using the video game, you're definitely igniting, you know, this, uh, dopamine, cortisol, like you're, you're, you're, you're zapping yourself constantly with, uh, the internal chemicals of

Yeah.

Basically war and fighting, right. Um. I was surprised. I'm not a, like a big video gamer, but I, I started to play a video game with my kids, right. And I, I was, it was like a really simple one kid level, you know, maybe they were like 10 or whatever. And what they, they would've these little card, it was like a, it's, it's online, but it was a card thing, and you put a card down and then they'd go out and they'd fight each other, right?

Hmm.

There's like meaning there, you know?

Hmm.

Uh, now it could be playing a sport, you know, um, it could be, uh, you know, painting or drawing or writing or playing the piano or whatever. Um, those are much simpler and they're not. Triggering so much of these kind of impressions, chemicals. Yeah. But I don't know, there's probably, um, studies on this that show the level of, you know, uh, stress hormones and things like that, that are being created in these different environments.

I had a neuroscientist on who, who explained it to me as what we really, if we, if we look at it like long term versus short term, what we really enjoy as the kind of felt experience is the rise of dopamine, the rise of it. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily high levels of dopamine. Mm-hmm. So that's kind of the, the, the.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like simple hacks as well. Like the, the simplest hack for us was having the, the charging station in, in, in the kitchen and having an old school clock because that eliminated my, my need to pick up the phone. 'cause I suck when I've actually picked up the phone.

I agree. I think that's the, the key, you know, to, is to find, um, systems that work.

besides meditation, what are great systems? Do you feel?

Um, I think the, uh. One of the things is that I think you named it, is turning off, uh, as much as possible the, the stuff, um, from the outside, you know?

Yeah.

Um, whether it's, uh, having a, a wind down. Everyone talks about wind downs. I don't personally know anyone except for people who are online saying that they have wine downs that has wind downs. But, um, what's

wind down for those people who haven't heard it before?

Ah, well, like you'll turn off all your screens.

scrolling.

Yeah. It's a good question. I mean, you know, people like Huberman talk about the neuroscience of these things and they, there are, you know, like I, I read Dopamine Nation and it's a, I mean, there's a lot of very smart people sitting there thinking of ways to get you triggered. Hmm.

And

it doesn't take much because it's also an invisible thing.

yeah. And it's subtle like that because you could have been really strong 14 times in terms of ignoring the notification and then you got got on the 15th time and they still get you, they still win in a sense.

And it's an obvious thing with the alcohol because you know the alcohol is a drug, right?

Mm.

You know that. Yeah. Yeah. No matter what you do, you know, it's a drug, but with the, the phone, you don't really understand. It's a drug that, it's a thing that's happening inside. You don't see it square, you know?

Yeah.

Like,

yeah. And, and it's tricky too because you could be, like, you could start out by answering an email that you have to do for something productive and then move, pivot from that into Instagram doing scrolling for two hours.

It's so crazy. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, we are, I, you know, I think about sometimes, so for instance, you, you have your, I have my phone here.

Yeah.

And at some point I think we have to say, Hey, wait a minute, you know, I have a choice.

Yeah.

I don't have to carry this with me.

Yeah.

You know, I don't

even wanna, you also feel like a little bit stupid when you, when you leave your phone out and you go take a dump and it's like, what do I do now? And you start reading the old shampoo bottles that you did back in the nineties, you know? Feels so weird.

So

weird, right? Oh my gosh.

Hey, I wanna get back to, to the story of, story of Shams and Rumi. Uh, so one of the things that's interesting to me with that story is that Shams comes in and is kind of the disruptor of Rumi. So a lot of times, at least to, to my felt experience, uh. You could have people along the journey that kind of nudge you towards understanding that you probably need to do some work.

So. We're talking about, uh, a different time in a different place. Uh, there was a system of like, let's say teacher and student. Um, even in the Socratic time, there's a teacher and student. Um, and then in India there's this kind of guru thing and Right. So there's a, in some cultures and places, there are these, uh, characters that are meant to be in a system, in place that are meant to help us grow.

Yeah.

Uh, in some degree, to some degree in the west, we used to have the church and there was some of these religious leaders who would capture people on, in all this kind of stuff. Um,

we used to have rites of passages more clearly as well as a society. That's something that I've thought a lot about, like you, the, the, the rite of passage into being a man or, or into being a father or something like that, that they're very like subdued in modern life.

Yeah. So I feel that, um, that same type of relationship is often hard to, let's say, find, um, those of us who are interested in opening up this side of things for whatever reason. Maybe we feel that was something missing, or maybe we just feel that this longing. Um, then there are things in place like, uh, you know, modern day type, guru type people who we can learn from, whether they're, um, you know, uh.

yeah.

But those kind of characters emerge. So I think finding one where we actually feel good, and that's a hard thing.

yeah. Maybe through the internet. Uh, you, you don't have to meet them personally either in the same way, but it's very dangerous because when, when you're in that state of you really feel that something's missing, this is not right. For whatever reason, you, you become a searcher. Hmm. Um, we're also very, uh, easy to be the prey, uh, with that openness because you're, you're searching for anything.

It's so easy to get to, to fall into if you're feeling, let's say, vulnerable and you feel like you need something. I think there's a, it's easy to fall into. This person has all the answers, uh, kind

of

thing. This one person kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think that, yeah, I think it's a, it's a problem now as an adult, let's say a fully functional man or woman, right?

Ah,

they're meant to just like light, put a light down.

You

know?

Yeah.

You know,

there's also, so I remember proposition to the, to the young mind, if, if you have your father that you're currently rebelling towards being the one that says that this character is probably not great, like, that creates even more magnetism towards that character.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I remember, um, so, you know, my kids were right at the wrong age for Andrew Tates. Mm-hmm. We, we really deal with it. It was like, uh, COVID. He's online. They're online. And they were like 14 or whatever. And so it was like perfect.

Yeah.

Um, for him. And so it was a real struggle to get them off that.

Yeah.

And he's like, but these teachers are unsuccessful, not that smart. I can learn more online, you know, and I'm like, and they don't drive a Bugatti or a Ferrari.

Yeah.

You know, and I say Aate all day, and he's got his university. I could learn from him. And two years I'll be driving a Ferrari.

Yeah.

And I look like muscly and I kickbox and all this kind of stuff. And you're like, yeah. You know, I, I, I personally think like a lot of times, you know, um, talking to like, let's say teachers and stuff, um, based here in Stockholm, like I can listen to, I can listen to the greatest minds.

Yeah. But it's, uh, I think that's probably a universal thing around these very magnetic, but still slightly maniac people that, that, that there are. Some truths in there as well. Of course. So like, for example, uh, going to the gym, uh, like it's universally probably a great idea for anybody.

Yeah. I mean, I think, um, let's say, uh, Andrew Tate, the line is pretty much skewed even though he says some good things.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. So Andrew takes a good example of like, please don't listen to him. And at the same time, there are other people who we probably, and we, although we could say for instance, like, uh, you know, take responsibility for your crap, right?

Mm-hmm.

Alright. Yeah, you're a hundred percent right about that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, you know, I, I don't like to, you know, I don't know, I don't like to make excuses for people.

your boy's relationship to under type.

Now they're, they're free. They're free from Andrew Skate. Yeah.

Outta sec.

Yeah. But it took a while, you know, and then one of my, my older one, um, he left that stuff and then he started getting, like, wrapped into the church thing and all kinds of things.

Yeah.

Uh, in this, you know, evangelical thing.

dude.

And then eventually he, uh, you know, he pulled himself outta that and he found something that he wants to do and everything. But he was longing. That's

interesting with like, almost, uh, uh, don't call your son an addict here, but like, there, there's something with like searchers that can become quite a.

Definitely. I've got that too. So, and it's funny that you mentioned sourdough 'cause he and I both got on the sourdough thing like last year.

Such a random thing.

I even had a sourdough, which I called Carmi from Carmi, uh, based on the, the bear, right?

Okay. Yeah.

So I had a so sourdough thing for like months and he was the one that got started. He's like, you gotta do the sourdough. So we were doing the sourdough thing, like, uh, sort of together.

you know? Yeah. Can I ask you, maybe not super connected to the conversation that we just had, but one of the things that I've struggled the most with, I think in, in my own practice has been, uh, um, getting locked outta this subjective experience because I put so much pressure on this objective experience.

I think when it comes to, let's say if it's specifically meditation. You know, we could keep our meditation score how many days in a row if you use like, views or something. You know, they have like levels, right? That you get feedback and I've done done all these things. So it's

less about the gamification.

Um. When, when we meditate, often we end up falling into routines. Just like anything else, we fall into these kind of thought routines or patterns. Um, and it can be, it can be interesting to, you know, to switch it up if we feel like we're just entering, entering into the same thing. So, um, one of the good things about, let's say a mantra, um, as opposed to something that we identify ourselves with is that, um, the word itself can almost be meaningless, but it gives our mind something to hold onto.

Mm-hmm.

It's good if it's maybe a message that we kind of like, but it doesn't happen. It's good if it's just like not as, uh, meaningful as, let's say an I am an oak and I'm gonna like spread my stuff out. And, um, because what happens is then we're, we're forcing a thought into a state where we ultimately want to be free from thought.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's nail on the head. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, it's um, another practice which might be just something simple like the breath as opposed like a visualization, um, you know, to, to to, because it's just being in that state is the key. We also have an expectation a lot of times with meditation is that it's gonna do something.

Yeah.

Um, we don't have to get stuck in the emotional body either. We can go deeper and deeper into this place where it's vast and open and the way there is through.

Yeah. Yeah.

Stress, um, working with our nervous system, uh, elongating the breath, those kind of basic things, they change our physiology and that change in physiology, even if we don't really feel it makes a change.

Yeah. It's, it's difficult with these things that have a tendency to compound over multiple years.

Hmm.

Like, it's, it's very difficult at times to, to kind of stay motivated when you're, you're kind of off the wagon, if that makes sense. You get back on it. Um, final question, like the, the story of, of, uh, shaman and Hams and, and Rumi.

I, I always, um, I'm probably more of a shams than, than a Rumi. I, I've never had like a, for any period of time, a, a, a long, um, uh, position, a stately position in that se, you know? Um, I've always been more, let's try that, let's do this a more impulsive Yeah. Even though maybe when people meet me, they seem, they, I maybe look or seem very structured or something, you know?

Yeah.

Uh, sense probably. Yeah.

Um, and how does that make you, is that something that you're, like, comfortable with or like, is there identity and, and perhaps an, an opinion about that?

Oh, that's a good question. I haven't thought about it like that. Um,

Yeah.

Um, in the work that I'm doing. Right. So I, yeah. Um, and if someone feels ignited by this kind of stuff or wants that kind of like deep work or whatever, then let's go, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's your relationship to, to like deci the desire to have impact, for example, because I remember this very viscerally from, from the shadow work that I did, that I realized while doing it, how much either negative or positive emotion. I put on different things. Like, to me, the desire to have impact, for example, would probably be something that I would perceive as, as kind of in, in the shadows of it, in the darkness.

It's, it's beautiful that you say that because I think, um, yeah. For me that's a hundred percent one of those things that I've struggled with, right? Um, you know, I wanna be a good person and in my mind somehow or somewhere deeper, like you say in the shadow side, I associate, uh, success with being, uh, let's say rich.

And what is that?

Yeah. And, um, and the shadow life is that basically you live something very adjacent to the life you wanna live. Yeah. So, for instance, for me being, um, let's say a, a writer and a creator, I've worked like in the TV business as a creative director servicing, you know, television companies and, and, um, and, and regular companies with creativity.

Yeah. Instead of being the creative. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. I've, I've been living a shadow career, like apparel thing, which gives you this good but not great.

Yeah.

And, and it's, and it's a fear of this, uh, success of standing out, of thinking like, you're so egotistical and all this kind of stuff.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Whereas other people might just jump on, you know, and be like, this book is so important to me.

yeah.

Uh, whereas someone in your family, like you, you think you're so great. You're doing the talks about that and all this kinda stuff. Like, I'm just trying to offer what I can.

Yeah.

And it's taken me until now, which is like, feels like forever to finally say, no, I'm doing the thing that I need to do.

liberating, right?

Yeah.

There's something around, at least again, just my subjective experience, but just giving yourself permission to want the things that you want.

Yeah.

That for me was probably the, the, the hardest one. Just saying, you know what, if this is what you want, own up to it.

Exactly. Yeah. You, once you into that, then things also fall into place too, because you're aligned. You're more aligned.

Yeah.

You know, um, if I, you know, if I hadn't said, I'm gonna write this book, I don't care.

Yeah. What would you name this chapter for yourself? Like the chapter that you are in, in the book of, of Gary's life. What, what is this chapter about?

Uh, sharing.

Sharing.

Yeah. Sharing. Yeah, sharing. Like when you asked about, oh, you know, what light can you shed or what things can you, uh, offer? And it's just like, for me, it's just like, you know, maybe through time.

now. That's beautiful. Yeah. And what's the next chapter after that?

Yeah. Who knows? Who

knows? That's beautiful.

Yeah. How about you? Where are you?

I think so much has been around giving permission to, to, to live a life that's more aligned to, to what me and Hannah actually want. And, um, making that happen and, and trying something that feels way, way, way different. Betting on myself is, is a huge thing. Um, and it's been kind of building over the last two or three years.

Mm.

Like there are no rules. Uh, to what, how we wanna structure life. And it feels at times a little bit like a cheat code.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I'm still in building mode. Like I'm not in, in, uh, like I'm, I'm set or, or anything like that.

Yeah. It's so good when you feel like you're taking steps towards the thing that really are, you know, the things that really are important to you and that you're driving for that.

Yeah. It's an interesting shift. So, so me and me and Hannah, we've obviously, we've had a, a super intensive year. We've like sold two properties and moved out of them and then switched to everything. So like, there's been so much on the like, operational side that has felt like problems and issues, but since a year ago, roughly when we decided like, this is what we want to do mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think you're doing it.

Yeah. It feels like it's, it is funny. We, we said that we should move down here for, try it out for six months and I think after two weeks we looked at each other and like, yeah, we live here now.

easiest on Amazon, just, um, you know, go to Amazon. Of course you can get it on my website too. And the audio book will be coming out shortly as well. So there'll be a, a, an audible version.

Awesome. Looking forward to it. It was beautifully written. I really enjoyed not just the content, but the style of it as well. So, so kudos for, for, for that being your, your first attempt at the, at the grownup book. I, I know you have plenty of kids book, uh, already released for that. It was beautiful.

Thank you so much.

It's always fun catching up with you, Gary. I'm looking forward to, I'm coming to Stockholm here soon. I'll, I'll, I'll hopefully be able to visit one of your breathwork classes as well.

Ah, that'd be great. Yeah. Come any, any Sunday as my guest. Of course.

Yeah, right there. Cheers, Gary.

Yep. See you later.

Awesome. It is really beautiful to speak to you. Always.

Yeah, it was super nice to talk to you too. This is

so, so man. Sometimes like when you get the questions back and like, I, I love when I get it, but it's like, whoa. There's something that I haven't really landed on there. I'm so used to like asking the questions, you know, which it's a luxury position.

No, but you, I mean, it feels like, you know, you're pulling things together and working hard to make sure that you have this kind of combination of, uh, you know, stability and success and all that kind of stuff, as well as the internal, you know, development and stuff like that. So it's really good.

Yeah. For me, the big thing right now is, as we talked about before, before cameras is permission to, um, also relax.

Yeah.

Super.

And restructure, and that sometimes it's restructuring, like you said, you know, work a little time.

Yeah.

You know? Yeah. So good.

Yeah. We had a long conversation yesterday, just me and Hannah. We actually took the day off and, and we just spent it, you know, walking the beach and, and talking about what truly matters, like what few things would have huge impact.

Hmm.

Suddenly it feels like it's available. Its just a design question. Yeah.

Yeah. So important to be able to say that. And, and the thing is, is the environment that you're in is the environment that you're in.

Yeah.

You know, you get, you do get affected by it, you know? Yeah. Often people talk about like, let's say the power of now and all this kind of stuff.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, how many pushups can you do? You know, it it, what happens to you at this moment? It's dependent on the things that you've done just before it, you know?

Yeah.

And essence, if you've made those shifts, then another shift to say, okay, yeah, I'm gonna tend spend a weekend away, get a babysitter for three days or whatever.

Yeah,

yeah. You know?

Yeah. How, how, how's the, how was super in a, in a good way, jealous of, of your house that you got, how, how's that treating you now?

Oh yeah. It's so good. We love it here. I mean, we're like right in the park, like,

yeah, I know. Yeah.

So I mean, I look out now, I mean, before, you know, we living in the city near was nice, but then I wake up in the morning and look outside.

yeah.

So it's just like so incredible.

Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. So

yeah,

it seems like such a rare thing to find in Stockholm. Like what, what you ended up landing.

I know, it's crazy.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden just happened to look in the midst of renovating, which was already like chaotic trying to fix my up. And I saw this and I was like. Look at this.

Yeah.

And when, then we went to a, a viewing and then, you know, it just happened. Right?

Yeah.

Strange. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the, it's the most beautiful park in Stockholm.

That's crazy. So lucky.

Fantastic. Gary, I gotta start running to, to pick up the kids and stuff.

It was super nice to talk to you.

Yeah, likewise. Um, I'll release this probably pretty soon. I'll get it over to my editor. Lemme check. I think this is actually going to be, uh, it's gonna be actually Thursday the 29th.

It's fine. Of course,

yeah. I'll get everything over to you in terms of uh, final edit and all the reels and stuff like that.

Oh, great. Yeah. I'm gonna, uh, I have to finish getting my, my new fixing my website, which I stalled on.

Yeah. Now you have a deadline

Thursday.

Awesome, man. Take care.

Alright, see you later.

Cheers.

Cheers.